M M and M (contd.)

M M and M (contd.)

This will probably be the last exchange,

Mendacious Mel wrote:

I’m sorry but I really don’t have time to correct all your grievous misapprehensions — save to say that yes, the Jews you name are indeed all utterly mendacious on this issue, as is the far left to which they subscribe.

I’d really like to continue this discussion because I think it’s a tragedy that you believe what you do, and that so many think like you. If you can bear to, I suggest you start reading some real, objective history of the region and of the Jewish people. I suggest you might start with primers such as Paul Johnson’s History of the Jews and Mitchell Bard’s Myths and Facts and progress to authors such as Howard Sachar, Martin Gilbert or Efraim Karsh.

I believe that it is only when Muslims start to understand the lies they have been fed about the Jews and Israel for so many decades that we will ever have peace between our peoples.

Best wishes,


I replied:

Oh dear Mel, what possible reason would the Jews I have named be “utterly mendacious” they tell it like it is, unshackled by blind allegiance to a vague biblical promise and the delusion of being the “chosen people”? It is an undeniable fact that Israel was forcibly CARVED out of the region of Palestine and whilst I agree the state of Israel is a reality and now has every right to exist, it would be a further injustice to destroy or have it wiped off a the world map, the gross injustice on the Palestinians has to be addressed for there to be any starting point for lasting peace.

I very rarely read about Israel and the Palestinians from “Muslim” or “Arab” sources precisely because these sources will be biased (and who can blame them), I am not interested in European anti-Semitic literature that has found its way into the Arab discourse, it was obscene when the European’s penned it and it is still obscene and pernicious today in any language.? People like you conflate legitimate criticism of Israel and Zionism with anti-Semitism to stifle debate and to discredit those with whom you disagree, it’s the easy option. Neturei Karta http://www.nkusa.org/ oppose Zionism and Israel, are they anti-Semites? They are certainly not “self-hating” Jews, they are not lefties and they are people who are well versed in their scripture, perhaps they too are mendacious for some bizarre reason. There are other orthodox communities who hold the same views. Let’s not forget Palestinian Christians and Palestinian Jews as well, who live in the Occupied Territories who are also subjected to abuse, it’s not a Muslim vs Jew issue, it is one of Human Rights, but I guess the further right you go you are not so interested in Human Rights if they get in the way of your agenda.

As for your comment ” I think it’s a tragedy that you believe what you do, and that so many think like you.” indeed, it is a shame, that a few people think like you.

Will you visit to the occupied territories and speak to the indigenous people of that land whilst some of them are still alive, will you at least acknowledge the injustice?

At your request, this will be my last email to you unless I hear from you again and I will be only to happy to respond, whilst I do have some time to correct your grievous misapprehensions I think that you are too long in the tooth, you have no interest in hearing the Palestinian side of this tragic story, sad and disingenuous for a writer of your purported stature.

Best wishes


4 thoughts on “M M and M (contd.)

  1. ask her why you would ever read polemical works on the issue. none of the writers she suggested are academics on the issue, just mere journalistic missionaries. Tell her to provide you with one academic study which favours Israel.

  2. ‘whilst I agree the state of Israel is a reality and now has every right to exist’

    I was a bit concerned to read the above line in your response… land which you yourself have said was forcibly carved and stolen from others should be returned should it not? what is the islamic position regarding the state of Israel? are we allowed to say it has a ‘right’ to exist, even if it is built on stolen/occupied land?
    Mas’ud says: It’s called being magnanimous.

  3. As-Salaamu ‘alaikum,

    Regarding Neturei Karta, I think you have fallen into a trap by mentioning them in a discussion with a Jewish Zionist. They are extremely unrepresentative, even of anti-Zionist religious Jews. There are different degrees of religious practice among Jews, but the “orthodox” range from the modern orthodox (e.g. those who follow the Chief Rabbi, who observe the Sabbath and the various kashrut rules but do not set themselves apart with black clothing and the like), to the Hassidim, who divide into various groups and some of them support Israel and some do not. The Satmars, who are a group of Hassidim originating in what is now Romania (but was then Hungary) remain opposed to Israel; other groups, such as the Lubavitchers, are staunchly pro-Israel. However, you will not find most Satmars marching with the Muslim Brotherhood denouncing Israel, let alone attending Holocaust denial conferences in Iran, as the NK people have done. I do not think we should be referencing them so much, as they are an irrelevant group seen as telling “outsiders” what they want to hear. I’m sure we remember how much ridicule al-Albani attracted for advocating the evacuation of Palestine as it had become “dar al-harb”, not to mention the damage to the reputations of the scholars who signed a fatwa approving of the American troops in Saudi Arabia during the Gulf War.

    Mas’ud Khan writes: My point was that there is a diverse range of people from Jewish to non-Jewish, from religious to non-religious who have grave reservations and criticism of Israel and Zionism. The point was also: what possible reason could someone who is Jewish have to “side” with the Palestinians other than the reality of the situation and that is they see suffering and injustice at the hands of their own people. I would have written a lot more, but off the cuff emails are seldom perfect 🙂 at least she read what I had to say and responded!

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